CHAMBER #1...THE RZA
YOU DIRTY WHORE!!!!...yes my friends...the telepaths are celebrating!!!...celebrating all things wu tang...celebrating the fact that 20 years ago enter the 36 chambers dropped...celebrating all the clan in the front and the back...me and drama are gonna have ourselves a little telepathic conversation or 10 on each and every clan member...yes, it's including u-god...starting with who we think is the greatest member of wu tang...starting with #1...who was it...fuck we know who it is...no drama there...so let's just kick off and get into this whore...i mean this fine lady...i mean this wonderful man that goes by the name of...THE RZA!!!
WILLIAM BROWN
FIRST QUESTION: was rza clearly #1?
FIRST QUESTION: was rza clearly #1?
SECOND QUESTION: did his questionable solo albums as bobby digital knock him back a few notches?
DRAMA EN SABAH
1. RZA the architect, Produced Enter, The Dirty Version, Tical, Only Built, Liquid Swords, Iron Man, and Forever. Great work scoring Kill Bill.
At first I thought it was pretty unanimous that RZA was number one but with more thought I wavered a little bit. I'm still confident he is but I think it's pretty easy to forget how big Meth was in the 90's. Still we got to give it to RZA his production was the driving force behind many of those hits. It's tough to have a "sound" that doesn't go stale after two albums. RZA held it together for like 7 albums if you count Forever as two records. He doesn't get enough credit but he changed the sound while still keep it familiar. If you listen to say OBCL, Liquid Swords, and Iron Man there are subtle shifts musically on those albums that make sure they don't sound exactly the same.
SECOND QUESTION: did his questionable solo albums as bobby digital knock him back a few notches?
Naw things like that only matter if you're a one hit wonder which he clearly isn't. Michael Jordan's 21 point seasons with the Wizards didn't put a dent in his HOF standings. Besides the first Bobby Digital album was a concept album and wasn't that bad he stepped outside his usual subject for that one. I actually charted pretty high as well. Commercially you can't hate a rapper with a top 20 album. I never heard the second one Digital Bullet but it did well commercial as well. Keep in mind these were after Wu-Tang wave was over. This speaks to RZA longevity. His third album Birth of a Prince was really good. I like that one a lot. Matter of fact it's going back on my playlist immediately. Me and boy Danger Man Lally nearly missed the start of a movie bumping the shit out of that album in a parking lot the day we got it and that was like 10 years after Enter the Wu-Tang.
Do you have any reservations about putting him in the number one spot?
WILLIAM BROWN
i have no reservations, i think he's a clearly number one by a large stretch...it was his vision that brought this all together...there's a nice scene in the "wu tang manual" where he told the story of walking endless miles through the different boroughs, over the bridges...walking and thinking...crafting and honing his vision of what he wanted to do with wu-tang...he brought all of these people together and made it work...he tailor made beats and crafted individual albums for method man, gza, odb, rae and ghost...he was an actor, he directed a movie, made soundtracks to movies...wrote two books...created his own character "bobby digital" and made solo albums with that concept...he produced and rapped at a high level...his wisdom and experience brought a depth to everything he touched...his knowledge of islam and the 5 percenters...he brought all kinds of pop culture together...kung fu flicks, comic books, chess etc...and made it wutang...i can't think of chess without thinking of wutang...kung fu the same...
question: do you have a favourite rza lyric?
question: do you think he's the best rapper/producer ever?...better than dre, kanye?
question: what are those bobby digital albums like in the year 2013, cause i was never feeling them too much, i remember being disappointed?
DRAMA EN SABAH
A favourite RZA lyric? That's a tough one. He has many good ones but one that jumps out at me is his verse on Impossible. The one that started "Fusion of the five elements/in search of higher intelligence." That was a great verse but Ghostface's most infamous verse is on that same song so RZA might not have gotten his just desserts there. Funny enough U-God's best verse is on that song as well.
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I can't give RZA the best producer ever tag. Though he is in the running. I don't know that anyone can compete with Dre who goes from NWA to Snoop to Em to 50. No one has more important records than Dre. Does that mean he's more talented thanRZA or even Marly Marl? Not necessarily but big tunes count for something. Still RZA is way up there in my books
I just finished listening to the In Stereo album again and that is some top notch work. I'm not too familiar with Digital Bullet but I know it was a gold record and that was going on 10 years after Wu-Tang's hey day. Both those were gold records at a time when Wu-Tang wasn't really selling records. So they did find an audience. I think In Stereo was a really, really good record. As I mentioned earlier I liked Birth of a Prince a lot as well though most of it doesn't hold up as well as In Stereo.
Did you ever get into any of that Gravediggaz stuff? I know a lot of people will tell you that was some of his best work. I never really got into it though.
WILLIAM BROWN
yeah i remember listening to the gravediggaz...supposedly they created the whole horrorcore genre of rap...like brotha lynch hung and tyler the creator etc...i never found them that dark though...maybe that's because prince paul was involved so much on the first album...like when i think of prince paul the last thing i think of is horror...i think of fucking daisies and his goofy concept albums like handsome boy modelling school...
i remember being pretty excited about this "cure" album he was working on or has been working on for 20 years...i got some stuff that was supposedly off of it but...i think he said that it would be his final solo work and then he was going to focus strictly on movie directing but who knows...i was never a big bobby digital fan but i read that he gave alot of the beats he was going to use on his solo stuff to wu tang albums because they could reach a bigger audience...
random fact: did you know rza is a vegetarian?
and i like this little personal nugget:
"I got children of my own, you know what I mean? Domestic problems at home. If you start coming home at night from helping all your fans and people and then you've got problems at the house, that will kill any man's spirit. Say you're Bobby Digital, you're RZA, and your girl fornicates on you—you feel like shit. 'Who the fuck? How the fuck?' And say it's some nigga who sells weed—'I'm a millionaire and you're fucking with a regular motherfucker?' That takes a lot from your spirit. That slowed me down, and then the passing of my mother—the two big blows of the year 2000. It really kept me back a few years—I had to go and find myself again. I never told anybody that. You got an exclusive on that one! And I think that's enough right there."
DRAMA EN SABAH
Man when RZA said "I chewed my fucking arm off and made my escape" on that Gravediggaz record that was pretty big for a lot of people. Not sure what album it was but there was an answering machine snippet that had a guy asking RZA how long it took him to chew his arm off.
Not sure if I knew rza was a vegetarian. Might have read it in the manual though. Man I find it funny that quote doesn't mention RZA talked about how his wife filed for divorce because of the interview he did where he said to get into the role of Bobby Digital "I must have fucked a 100 bitches". Of course she's going to fuck the weed guy after that. I remember reading him saying that and thinking man isn't his wife going to read this shit? Then shortly thereafter she files for divorce.
WILLIAM BROWN
On the origin of the name RZA: "I used to be called Rakeem. I thought I was going the right way, but I was going the wrong way, and I had to find my way back the right way in order to find Allah. That's called 'zig-zag-zigging.' I use Allah as a proper name for God, because in Allah, I get all. I get Arm, Leg, Leg, Arm, Head. By me accepting that that's me, Rakeem Zig-zag-zig Allah, that became a title more than a name. RZA."
i think i read in the tao book that he was so depressed with all this relationship stuff with his wife that he just laid on his lawn for a few days and then had some epiphany or the spirit entered into him and he was okay after that...more than okay he was on fire creatively...
here's some stats i found of record sales...i think it was from about 5 years ago though...
man they sold over 4 million of wu tang forever!
what do you think of the rza's involvement with hollywood...from acting to scoring soundtracks to directing?...how did you feel about his directorial debut?
DRAMA EN SABAH
I think all the extra stuff shows his range and can only add to his the level of respect he's owed but that being said I can't say I've cared that much. It's rare I think much about a score after the movie is over and I can't say I cared much for the Man with the Iron Fists.
I did like the Wu-Tang manual though. I don't mind RZA as an author at all.
WILLIAM BROWN
In the end...what has rza brought to the table for you?...how has he made your life better?
DRAMA EN SABAH
Well I mean RZA brought the Wu to the table and the Wu in my opinion is easily top four in terms of groups in Hip Hop history. Right up there with Run DMC, PE, and NWA. He also brought a new sound to the scene that was really influencial which to me is most for a producer to be considered a top tier guy. I think with the books and what not you really get a chance to see a figure in Hip Hop show some depth. RZA is really going to go down in history as one of Hip Hop's all time great thinkers.
WILLIAM BROWN
WILLIAM BROWN
In the end...what has rza brought to the table for you?...how has he made your life better?
DRAMA EN SABAH
Well I mean RZA brought the Wu to the table and the Wu in my opinion is easily top four in terms of groups in Hip Hop history. Right up there with Run DMC, PE, and NWA. He also brought a new sound to the scene that was really influencial which to me is most for a producer to be considered a top tier guy. I think with the books and what not you really get a chance to see a figure in Hip Hop show some depth. RZA is really going to go down in history as one of Hip Hop's all time great thinkers.
THE TELEPATHS
FAVOURITE RZA CUTS...
bobby digital - domestic violence
this shit right here was classic for me...bitch to be a nurse, you gotta go to school first!!!!
wu tang - maria
suicidal, she been in more hotel rooms than bibles...my favourite rza line...
gravediggaz - 1-800-suicide
this shit still sounds dope!
RZA - Tragedy
One of the best RZA solo tunes in my opinion. Dense with 5 percenter philosophy.
Wu-Tang Clan - Impossible
Possibly the best verses of three different Clan members appear on this one song. RZA's opener is a master's course in rhyme writing.
GZA Shadowboxin'/4th Chamber
Really this entry is about 4th Chamber but why the fuck wouldn't you want to listen to Shadowboxin while we're at it? I mean give me Meth on Shadowboxin' all cot.damn.day. But this is about RZA and RZA serves up the love love nicely on 4th Chamber. What I want you to check for is the end of his verse where he says Protons, electrons, always, cause, explosions. See what he did there? Well he does that more than once throughout the Wu catalogue. Might be fun to try and find them all. Peace.
Prince Rakeem - Oooh We Love You Rakeem
For shits and giggles. You can hear some influences that would appear later on Enter the Wu-Tang
METHOD MAN
DRUNK OFF A CHEAP WINE...salute to that...many a time that was a slogan of mine...many a time i raised my bottle of merlot to that line...and salut to our french canadian friends while we are saluting things...bonjour, oui, oui and all that good stuff...all that good stuff...the telepaths are back in the telepathic wu tang chambers once again...this time to talk about M-E-T-H-O-D MAN...coming in #2 in our rankings...so join us in a telepathic conversation that will slightly bend how you perceive your life at this moment in time...or at the very least will entertain you for a few minutes!
I remember stickin fiends at the one-six-oohWhen we was starvin, duckin five-oh, payin em duesTimes is hard in the slums I'm from, they got us barred inWe warrin and cage dodgin, rippin and robbinGot the NARC sabotagin, slippin cracks inYour camoflougin, now you snitchin on the squadronThat's somethin niggas can't pardonCity overrun by young gun with bad intention, and Wu-Wear garmentSo I see no need to mention, the potencyOf a sting from a killa bee, kickin the batteryOut the back of them wisecracksDistorted for your get high you hijackThese friendly skies ain't for you, they for me and mineThis the year of the grimy nigga, ragtimeKeep these niggas on the run, peep my Clan emblemIron Lung ain't got to tell you where it's comin fromCatch us swimmin with these sharks now, you rap villainsWe feel the same way you feelin, let it be knownWhat the blood clot you niggas dealin, you crash dummies
Cash rules, still don't nuttin move but the money
WILLIAM BROWN
So we got method man in the #2 slot...was it pretty close between him and ghostface killah? what gave him the edge?
DRAMA EN SABAH
You know I think in hindsight I can't say it should have been close. Even though Ghost has had more recent success and a real strong cult following he still isn't as big as Meth was during his peak. Remember Meth was so big that he would wear a mask around in public just so that he wouldn't be bothered by his fans? Meth also had a solo song on the Protect Ya Neck single with a video and as I mentioned before was the go to guy for posse cuts. He was everywhere. During interviews he was the guy being asked all the questions. Which lead to the confrontation with I think U-God where Meth was like "But look at the answers you be giving." Also though he's not so much in the spot light anymore he has had a bit of quality resurgence. His last solo album was a good one and he was really good on 8 Diagrams.
Let's start at the beginning...he had the two most popular cuts on enter the 36 chambers...cream and method man...which then translated into him being the first out of the gate with a wutang solo album...so let's talk about "tical" first...the album title is a play on the word "methodical" as well as meaning a blunt that has been laced with some mind altering shit...was this a mind altering album for you?...what was your initial reaction when you heard method man off 36 chambers?
DRAMA EN SABAH
I wasn't necessarily the biggest Wu-Tang fan before Enter. It took me awhile to get into Protect Your Neck and what I really liked was a little heard remix for Method Man (Home Grown Version) on the b-side. Still I wasn't convinced until I bought Enter. Even at the time I thought to myself how funny it was that I bought the album on sight even though I didn't really love the early stuff and then the album just blew me way.
Tical is one of two albums that I didn't like until I listened to it with other people. Coincidentally the other album is by another Wu-Tang member Ghostface Killah and his Iron Man album. That's never happened to me at any other time. Though funny enough Iron Man is one of my favourite Wu-Tang albums but Tical isn't. Anyway to answer the question when I first heard Tical I didn't like it. The beats and lyrics didn't really jump out at me. Didn't have quite the energy of Enter...Which is funny because Meth got a lot of credit for the energy on Enter... I was away at school when I first heard the album. When I came back to Toronto my friends who loved Tical were playing it non stop and it quickly became the sound track of the winter of '94. There a some big songs on that album. Subcrazy being one of my favourites as was Release Yo' Delf. It went well with whatever we were into at the time so yeah I'd say it was fairly mind altering or at least a very good compliment for when you're having your mind altered by other things. Songs like Tical and Mr.Sandman were pretty trippy if you're tripping.
Did you buy into Meth as the break out star? I know you usually aren't into the guys getting the most spotlight but in the early days of the Wu was there a more deserving guy to wave the Wu flag .
Little known fact. Tical was originally supposed to be called The Burning Bush.
Additionally: Do you remember how many people dressed like him and even adopted his mannerisms? There were tons of them.
WILLIAM BROWN
I remember you put me on to the wu...i was a hardcore head back in the day...back when dude's like me were non-existent in terms of listening to hip hop...and that's not even no ego talk...it just wasn't the case...and i don't even want to talk shit and put labels on things...but for somebody like me...who was white and an outkast...at that time period in the late 80s...there was nobody around me...and that's the thing...my love of rap doesn't come from nothing but rap...it doesn't come from my peers or anything like that...it doesn't come from any colours or anything that was cool or any of that shit...i found this shit on my own...period...and any one that challenges me, and says "oh william brown, you ain't no head"...i'll fucking bring you back to things in my time machine and then you'll see...but why am i so angry?...fucking colt. 45 got a bit of a hold on me...brings out the demon in me...but like i said drama put me on to some wu tang...and meth was the shit...straight up...he was the shit...who else in wu tang sticks out like meth?!...here's the thing about wu tang...these dudes brought the lyrics...and by lyrics i mean the flow, the depth, the wordplay...meth brought that shit...with charisma...with style...with depth...i mean shit...seriously...
...you know what's amazing is that he hooked up with another kindred soul in redman and they collaborated on albums and tv shows...what's your feeling on that collaboration?
DRAMA EN SABAH
The best of the Red and Meth was the original How High. The one without the chick singing the chorus. I remember I first heard it on a mixtape. I believe it was DJ Clue's Halloween Havoc aka the Flavour in Your Ass mixtape. So named because clue said something about someone's ass that my friend Matic somehow turned into "Flavour in Your Ass". Anyway this was back when mixtapes were actually useful in that they were filled with leaked songs and bootleg shit. Biggie was looking to crack Clue's head for leaking his songs. Good times. Anyway that was my favourite song of the moment and shortly thereafter Def Jam started advertising "The Month of the Man" as they were dropping Redman's second and Meth's first that month. Two weed head rappers setting up to collaborate was a given but I was disappointed in the Black Out project. It had some great songs like the Rocwilda but all in all it didn't move me. I also didn't like how they co-opted Cypress Hill, it felt like biting because Hand On the Pump wasn't that old of a song. That being said I do enjoy their chemistry. They've a bunch of songs together I thought were really good. They had a good one on the The Dare Iz A Darkside LP.
All in all I think Red and Meth together has helped both their careers.
Were you bumping Blackout? I don't remember you bumping to Blackout.
WILLIAM BROWN
I never got into the blackout albums...tried but it didn't really catch on...or the how high movie for that matter...what did you think of meth's 2nd album...judgement day...i remember feeling really hyped before it came out and while the album was solid it kind of killed the momentum for me in terms of meth's career and i don't think i checked out any of his solo stuff after that...
DRAMA EN SABAH
I thought Judgement Day was a disappointment. While there may be a couple songs I liked the only one I can remember is Sweet Love. That song I played fairly regularly but the album was forgettable for the most part. One thing that did stand out was how big a star Meth was. He had a phone call from Janet Jackson on the album. I believe there was another skit or two that really let us know that this guy's world had changed! And maybe not for the better going by the interviews he was giving at the time. Surprisingly that second album sold nearly as well as the first album.
His 3rd album I can't remember at all but his forth album I heard at a friend's house one summer and I thought it was pretty good. Maybe his overall best album. Shortly after the Meth renaissance continued with his stellar work on the Wu album 8 Diagrams.
WILLIAM BROWN
I thought he was amazing on 8 diagrams...he really provided a nice vibe to that...rza said he made that album to be played in the "winter"...and i remember playing that alot when i lived in nova scotia that winter...do you know why ghost and rae came down so hard on that?...ego perhaps...something went awry there with rza...anyway, meth got me hyped again to listen to him and i'm looking forward to his "crystal meth" album...
How did you feel about his acting and character on "the wire"? We didn't get into it yet about meth and the wire...his character "cheese"...how did you feel about his acting skills in that show?...average...above average...
DRAMA EN SABAH
See Meth has a lot of personality. You see it in his videos as well. So while he may not be an actor with "range" he definitely has enough personality to carry a role. While I haven't seen much of his acting work I thought he was really good on the Wire. Of course I'm also one of the people who feel writing carried that show far more than acting. I really liked his Cheese character. I mean
"Omar had one of them commando squads with him, man. I mean, he had this one ho' pulling guns out her pussy, unc! The shit was unseemly, man."
That's one of the many great lines in that series!
WILLIAM BROWN
In the end...how do we not mention "street life"...?
DRAMA EN SABAH
Street Life might be the Memphis Bleek of the Wu-Tang Clan. I have no idea what Meth was trying to accomplish with that guy. He must have had a good gun game or something. Though I did think he had the best verse on Sweet Love.
WILLIAM BROWN
In the end part 2...bunch of wu tang stuff has come out recently in the press...rza trying to pull everyone back together for this wu tang reunion album, but having problems, most specifically with rae and ghost...rza mentioned that method man is still fully down with the wu and that not much has changed...
"[What's changed?]" Method Man said. "Zip codes. That’s as simple as I can put it—zip codes have changed. We’re all still the same dudes. At least, I feel like we’re the same dudes; you’d have to ask somebody on the outside looking in. I still see the child in all my niggas. And it’s funny, I can see it in the things they do. RZA made a Kung-Fu movie last year. If that’s not screaming childhood fantasy, I don’t know what is, you know what I mean? Rae’s living the lifestyle of a mobster and shit—childhood fantasy? Yeah. Me? I got millions of pairs of sneakers and video games, shit that I didn’t have as a child. So in that sense, yeah"
DRAMA EN SABAH
Meth is not being entirely truthful here though. As a huge problem with Wu-Tang as of late is that everyone is determined to go their own way. Rae and Ghost especially have been vocal in their criticisms of RZA and his control or influence of the clan. Personally I think those two really generated a lot of negative press for 8 Diagrams which was the best Wu album since Forever. But Rae and Ghost were always knocking the musical selection and that had to turn some fans off of the project before they even heard it. So to say everyone is the same can't be entirely correct. These guys are older and aren't looking to fall in line as easily as they use to. Funny enough Meth is the one who would seemingly have the most reason to break away from the Clan given his success but he's remained a really loyal soldier.
Method Man fun fact **Method Man's name in the Nation of Gods and Earths is Shaquan which he also used as an emcee name. Old Dirty Bastard calls him by that name on the Mystery of Chessboxing "Represent the GZA Abbot, RZA, Shaquan, Inspectah Deck Dirty Ol'/ getting low wit his flow/ Introducing, the Ghost..face.. Killah!!/No one could get iller"
He was also known as the Panty Raider. He only settled on Method Man because of the hit song of the same name. So yeah your favourite Wu-Tang emcee was nearly named the Panty Raider. Meth would eventually name his new born son Shaquan.
FAVOURITE METHOD MAN BANGERS
Meth is a tricky one for favourites because some much of his dopest shit might be on features or with other members of the Clan. I mean as essentials go you have to list the "All I Need" remix, "Method Man" or of course the brilliant choruses on "C.R.E.A.M" and "Ice Cream". Despite people considering him a bit of a disappointment as a solo artist he has more dope records than you can count on your hands and toes.
Meth is a tricky one for favourites because some much of his dopest shit might be on features or with other members of the Clan. I mean as essentials go you have to list the "All I Need" remix, "Method Man" or of course the brilliant choruses on "C.R.E.A.M" and "Ice Cream". Despite people considering him a bit of a disappointment as a solo artist he has more dope records than you can count on your hands and toes.
How High with Redman. This is the original version that I first heard on I believe a DJ Clue mixtape. This song blew my fuckin mind when it I heard it. I still kinda lose my shit when it comes on to be honest.
Release Yo' Delf. I've always been fascinated by the apostrophe in the title. Like this is the time and place for correct punctuation. Cause I need to know that word is actually "your" and not "yo" but at the same time I'm expected to know what the fuck a delf(self) is. Anyway if you're throwing a party and decided that you need some insurance money and arson is the ticket. Throw this track on and watch the building burn. High energy Meth is as great as slow flow Meth.
Do What Ya Feel. Meth on that ill slow flow shit. Reminds me of some of his work on Liquid Swords.
Sub Crazy is one of my favourite joints off of Tical
I really liked this "freestyle". Don't know if it ever ended up on a track or not but I really was hoping that Meth would continue to use this type of subject matter going forward.
Aiyyo strongarm that kid right there with wavy hair
WILLIAM BROWN
DRAMA EN SABAH
WILLIAM BROWN
So we forgot who was number 4 in our wu tang member rankings...we checked...and we had some controversial shit right there...not the gza, not odb...but...RAEKWON: THE CHEF!!!...i was kinda shocked actually...because i had no recollection...which means i must've been drunk when we initially did this list...which means we have some explaining to do!!!!...
william brown
william brown
Drama En Sabah
On the surface it is what it is...but if you like, you also got a little dip, dip dive, so-so-cialize...nod to Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five...and a shout out to RZA making beats with razor sharp knives...
...turns out, on the last line GZA'S using the supreme alphabet used by the 5 Percenters...which is a path that Clarence 13X created out of the Nation of Islam...
william brown
You and fucking Ironman!!!...any chance you get, you bring that album up!...fuck...I don't even know if you want me to seriously answer that?...but truth be told i never thought about GZA not being on Ironman...but fuck that...back to his other solo stuff...it's true he didn't have the solo success...i would say his solo albums are solid...like 6/10 type solid...nothing bad, but nothing too memorable...although i am looking forward to his new Dark Matter album, whenever that drops...seems like he's taking his time with that...studying his chess moves...polishing it...wax on, wax off...allright, it's taken us months to do this GZA CHAMBER!!!...let's fucking post this bitch and move on!
WHAT YOU DOING ON OUR TURF PUNK?
I got a message for smokey...me and drama...the telepaths at night?...yeah, well...we just want to mention to him that...well...we're talking about something that might interest him...you know...like... CHAMBER #3: THE....GHOST...FACE...
KILLAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!...
Billy Johnson, snatched him out his whip in Times Square
Took his Pumas, nameplate, dude lost weight
Summer eighty-eight, started a fight, that can't wait
Ask Dorothy, same kid pussy up in Marcy
Blazin' that Ted Rossi, up in The Marquee
He lost like a hundred ounces, Jake rushed his houses
Had him on the porch, ass no trousers
This souped up, individual stuck, the new stuff
Same kid cryin on the stand with Judge Cuffner
Kissed him with odd numbers three to nine style
Before he left he flashin his face like Denzel
Richard Dale took his Beaver, off the wall pullin his whip
Mussy dropped and split his wig with the heater
His shape-up was all fucked up, as he had me laughin
God you see how he was laid out, in the grass
With dirt in his mouth, Slim woke him up told him he wild out
Blood leakin from his teeth he smiled like he gunned out
Big bolo, stackin his shit financed a Volvo
He copped his shit from a small, coffeeshop in SoHo
He still pussy, he sell his dust up on the Lower East
Posin like he rappin out...
WILLIAM BROWN
That's ghostface at his best for me right there...
Ghostface Killah most consistent soloist of all clan members. Possible they only clan member whose relevance increased during the late 90's and in the new millennium. Some would say at least 5 of his first 6 solo albums are classics.
DRAMA EN SABAH
That is an incredible verse. I don't get the sense that most of Ghost's most fervent fans are big Forever fans for some reason but there are a lot of great moments on that album. Ghost is great on Older Godz as well. Does anyone have better opening lines than Ghostface? from "I roll like a bat out of hell/Evil acapells" to "Ghostface catch the blast of a hype verse/My Glock burst leave in a hearse/I done worse" we got "We eat, fish tossed salads/and make rap ballads" it just goes on and on. Every time Ghost starts a verse you really want to know where it's going to end up. I had that feeling a lot on Iron Man which to the chagrin of Ghost fans everywhere is my favourite of his albums. Iron Man actually seems like a like a spiritual prequel to OBCL to me. Like if OBCL was born from the nihilism of the 80's crack era. Iron Man is more late 70's early 80's cocaine era. More soulful and little more politically conscious than OBCL. RZA also came with a slightly modified Wu sound.
I know your one of those that doesn't necessarily think Iron Man is his best work though. Ghost himself thinks that album is highly flawed as he was unfocused during the making of it as he had learned he had diabetes. What's your take on the quality of his albums? How do you rank them?
WILLIAM BROWN
YO BITCH I FUCKED YOUR FRIEND...REMEMBER WHEN I LONG DICKED YOU?...you know when i listen to any ghostface album...on first listen i always think about 70's pussy...jackie brown comes to mind...but back...i mean...i come away from a ghostface album feeling hyped but upon subsequent listens i'm left just hitting up a few songs...ironman might be my least favourite solo album from that initial wu tang time period of classics...supreme clientele would be my favourite...i liked fishscale...apollo kids had me feeling some stuff...his recent twelve reasons to die is pretty tight...fan of that wu block album...but i guess i'm more of a fan of his when he's on a wu tang album or with rae on cuban linx 1 and 2...maybe his shit is too complex and esoteric for me to sift through too much on his solo stuff...how do you feel about his albums?...was supreme clientele big for you?...big in toronto at that time?...you loved ironman!?...why did you love ironman by the way?...
DRAMA EN SABAH
With Iron Man like I said I just feel it was like a prequel to OBCL even thought it came out after. It also had a different take on the RZA sound that I really liked. You could hear the soul influences that Ghost would really make his own on Supreme Clientele take root on Ironman. I like Supreme Clientele but not as much as Iron Man. Supreme was really big though. I think Supreme is the album for Ghostface face fans. A lot of Ironman fans were there because of the Wu but by the time Clientele came out the Wu name wasn't enough to sell records. People thought the Wu had their run but weren't expecting much going forward. Supreme Clientele let people know the Wu was here to stay and that Ghost was more than a product of the Wu-Tang movement and that he could stand on his own.
Supreme Clientele was a massive hit in Toronto. I remember one local emcee pointing out that Ghostface put his soul into records. It was like he was crying in his raps. Not many emcees can convey a range of emotions like Ghost can. And while songs like Apollo Kids and of course Cherchez La Ghost where monster tracks my favourite on that album is One. It's just pure Ghostface to me even though up until that point he'd never written anything quite like it. It seems like a just a dazzling display of stream of consciousness but the more you listen to that first verse the more you understand that Ghost is up in a weed spot reading a letter some chick sent him.
A-yo, we at the weedgate, waiting for JakeWe want eight ravioli bags, two thirsty villians yelling bellyaches Heavyweight rhyme writers, hitting the grass that's the ripestPull out this kite from this white bitch Talking 'bout, "Dear Ghost, you the only nigga I knowLike when the cops come, you never hide your toast"
Now why Ghost is at the weed spot waiting for Jake I don't know. Why he has letters from white bitches with him I don't know either. Then again I'm not Toney Starks now am I? I do know that it's awesome that he feels no need to hide his gun when cops show up. And then out of no where you get the "The devil planted fear inside the black babies" on the hook and you're like wow this song got serious in a hurry but then Ghost goes back to the super intense rhymes of how cool he is only to come back with that hook later in the song. Just incredible stuff from a guy whose also really good at telling linear stories.
I'm sure it's out there and I'm sure I've read it but I'm not quite sure at this point how Ghostface got the name. I know the Ghostface Killer is the name of a character from an Old School Kung Fu movie but I wonder why Ghost ended up with the name? Like why it fit him more than anyone else in the Clan?
Supreme Clientele fun fact** The version released in Canada is not the same as the version released elsewhere. There are different songs, beats and I believe different sequencing on the Canadian version. Some of the samples could not clear internationally so they had two different versions. A bunch of the CD's were imported so people who got those copies have the U.S version but if you got a cassette in Canada you probably have the international version. I only discovered this because my room mate had the CD and I had the cassette and we eventually noticed that they were noticeable different but equally awesome.
WILLIAM BROWN
I LEANED BACK LIKE I'M RICH...WHEN I WAS ON TOUR HO...i mean, him and rza used to be roommates...probably watched that mystery of chess boxin also called ninja checkmate or some such thing....roaming times square...porno or kung fu for cheap...yo...fun fact...drama and william brown wandered around times square...after hours...drama gave a heads up...young tyson kid got our eyes on us...so we booked....plus he had a bunch of outstanding warrants so he wanted to go...ghost...
As Ghost explained, several members of the group were involved in a Battle Rap event prior to becoming friends or group mates. At the event, they had to square off against each other and battle. A drug dealer put money up for the winning emcee. Guys decided to join on their own accord, never knowing how much closer they’d become after that evening.
“Me, Cappadonna, Rae, RZA, Meth, Genius [GZA], Ol’ Dirty and U-God, I remember one time we battled each other before we was Wu-Tang Clan,” Ghost shares, reminding himself of their battle at a New York nightclub. “Cap had fucked around and won the money, because he said the drug dealer’s name that had put the money up for the Rap battle. He had his name in the rhyme, and the crowd just went fuckin’ bananas when Cap said the dude’s name! He stepped off with the money though. But I never knew that one day we would become those members from Staten Island, that we’d be in one group…it was definitely crazy. It was really, really crazy.”
Funny but ghost also mentions how the wu are a bunch of comedians and always cracking each other up...
“Niggas is funny mothafuckas, yo,” Ghost added. “A lot of those times, we were just laughin’ and snappin’.” He recalls jokes so great that he’d dare any crew to challenge the Wu. “If anybody wanna to snap against Wu-Tang Clan, man, you’re gonna be in for some shit. Meth, Rae U-God and even RZA, niggas is funny mothafuckas.”
Good to hear that people are having a good time...it always seems like rappers are so fucking stressed for some reason...well i know the reasons but back to the program...and although when he was like 13 and living in staten island...SHAOLIN!!!...he lived in an apartment with 12 fucking relatives...including two in wheelchairs with muscular dystrophy...that shit must've split some atoms in his molecular equation...stress right there...went to jail for a bit and came out and the wu got popping...
DRAMA EN SABAH
I've seen that movie. I think there are actually two movies with Ghostface Killer in it but the Mystery of Chess Boxing is more popular. Still seems like an name odd for someone to take on for themselves.
WILLIAM BROWN
GOT JERKED AT THE SOURCE AWARDS...NEXT YEAR 200 NIGGAS COMING WITH SWORDS!!!...man, ghost has had a few rap beefs in his career...
Apparently he slapped the crap out of Ma$e back when he had millions of dollars, breaking his jaw. Also, when 50 Cent was just starting to rise in popularity, Ghost allegedly pushed him down some stairs for that slick talk in "How to Rob."
DRAMA EN SABAH
No way he broke Mase's jaw. Though I do think a friend of his did hit Mase. A lot has been made of that but how could Mase have his jaw broken and not have anyone in the media reported it. Mase was one of the biggest stars in rap. Wouldn't we have noticed if his career just stopped while he was recovering from a broken a jaw? Even though some rappers have said things that seem to legitimize the rumour. You got Kanye on "Through The Wire" saying, "If you know how my face felt/ You know how Mase felt/ Thank God I ain't too cool for the safebelt"
And Shyheim the Rugged Child said something like "From the Empire State/Where Ghost retired Mase."
But on the song Malcolm if you listen Ghost says "I-Sham punched Mase in his face." I-Sham being a Wu affiliate mentioned way back on the 36 Chambers album.
And Shyheim the Rugged Child said something like "From the Empire State/Where Ghost retired Mase."
But on the song Malcolm if you listen Ghost says "I-Sham punched Mase in his face." I-Sham being a Wu affiliate mentioned way back on the 36 Chambers album.
WILLIAM BROWN
Tony yayo let it out that some dude in rae's camp wrote all of supreme clientele...ghostface kindly disagreed and then added...But, Yayo can suck a fat dick. Tell him I said that."
Did you know ghostfaces first "official" solo song was "winter warz" which was off the "don't be a menace..." movie soundtrack...which is funny cause when i think of that song i laugh cause i think of cappadonna...did you ever think cappa would ever stop rapping on that song!
DRAMA EN SABAH
Man if there's one thing I hate about Wu-Tang it's the song Winter Warz and the thing I like the least about the song is Cappadonna. What did they give him 48 bars?
WILLIAM BROWN
Man, we gotta get into 8 diagrams a bit...ghostface called that album "bullshit" and "wack" and that anybody that liked that album was a "yes niggas"...whatever that means...i'm a big fan of 8 diagrams...that album was big for me when i lived in nova scotia for a year there...i like that nova scotia...shouts out to nova scotia...cheap land and good people...i like that album over "w" or "iron flag"...anyway, i know you like that album too...and this shit seems to have snow balled...the ill feelings from ghost and rae from 8 diagrams is still going to this day in terms of them getting all together and doing a new album...is it money?...pride?...ego?...
I know we've long been in the days of diminished record sales but Ghost and Rae's opinions on the 8 Diagrams album really helped kill it from a sales perspective in my opinion. Ghostface by that time had a lot of weight with Wu fans because he was the only one putting out consistent quality Wu product and for him and Rae to go on in on the production values of that album was really strange to hear as a fan of Wu-Tang especially since that record was so much better than most products these guys have been involved. I mean Rae hadn't even put out OBCL 2 yet. I remember RZA saying that OBCL 2 was already done and he didn't want 8 Diagrams to be just like it so he went a different way. Still the way Ghost's words carried is one of the reason you know he's justified to be #3 on the list he's that important.
I remember when you were putting this list together there was some debate on whether Method Man should really be ranked higher than Ghostface. I felt that Meth was way too big early on in the history of the Wu for Ghostface to be above him. To be honest Method Man could have arguably been number 1. I'm not sure the Wu takes off without him. As time moves on what do you thing Ghost would have to do to pass Meth. Is it even possible?
WILLIAM BROWN
I think what separates ghost from most of the other wu tang members is his ability to show you scenes...like in a movie...he's able to match his slang style to linear storytelling techniques...like rae has the same level of slang but can't put together a narrative...deck doesn't tell scene stories...cappa can but he's limited if he's on more than one verse...ghost reminds me, in terms of his storytelling like rick the ruler...they can tell their stories in unique ways...with their original flows and in the little fun details they'll throw in their raps...and you can tell he throws in layers...like a layer for those in the clan...a layer for those from his hood...a layer for his chicks...a layer for the general fan...i would love to read a book of ghostface's rhymes...decoded you know...where he lets you in on everything...and you also add in his love of soul music, in terms of the samples used in his songs and his ability to be emotional and you have a winning combination with fans...if ironman was a front to back classic he would be in the running with meth at least their would be a discussion...he's still consistently putting out albums that are quality and so who knows...i was thinking that instead of ironman being his first album...what if...instead they used the concept off of his latest album "twelve reasons to die"...and rza produced all the tracks and there was more clan members on it, i think that shit would've been classic...
DRAMA EN SABAH
I agree one hundred percent. Ghost's narratives are just on another level. I also think that while guys like RZA may have really dense verses that you have to study to understand everything if you're not to up on the 5%er slang, Ghost does the same thing but right out in the open sometimes you just miss it because he has so much going on in his verse. Like if we dissect this little portion of Scary Hours...
Mussy dropped and split his wig with the heaterHis shape-up was all fucked up, as he had me laughinGod you see how he was laid out, in the grassWith dirt in his mouth, Slim woke him up told him he wild outBlood leakin from his teeth he smiled like he gunned out
That entire verse is one of my favourites but so much happened I never realized that Ghost was laughing at the guy who got laid out on the grass. His shape up being slang for a recent hair cut. Ghost is laughing at this guy who just got his head cracked.
Also you're spot on with the emotion aspects of his craft. The song Wildflower is one of the most masculine songs I can think of because while Ghost is angry about his girl cheating on him and the emotion is present in the song it also doesn't hide from the hypocrisy evident in many man. We want want a lot of women but we don't think women should cheat on us. Like a guy could cheat on is girl and get caught and she might forgive him. But if she turn around and does the same thing that dude probably isn't going to be quite as forgiving.
His verse on "impossible" just came to mind to go with what we are talking about, in terms of his storytelling abilities...
Call an ambulance, Jamie been shot, word to KimmyDon't go Son, nigga you my motherfuckin heartStay still Son, don't move, just think about KeebaShe'll be three in January, your young God needs yaThe ambulance is taking too longEverybody get the fuck back, excuse me bitch, gimme your jackOne, seven one eight, nine one one, low battery, damnBlood comin out his mouth, he bleedin badlyNahhh Jamie, don't start that shitKeep your head up, if you escape hell we gettin fucked upWhen we was eight, we went to Bat Day to see the YanksIn Sixty-Nine, his father and mines, they robbed banksHe pointed to the charm on his neckWith his last bit of energy left, told me rock it with respectI opened it, seen the God holdin his kidsPhotogenic, tears just burst out my wigPlus he dropped one, oh shit, here come his Old EarthWith no shoes on, screamin holdin her breasts with a gown onShe fell and then lightly touched his jaw, kissed himRubbed his hair, turned around the ambulance was therePlus the blue coats, Officer Lough, took it as a jokeWeeks ago he strip-searched the God and gave him back his cokeBitches yellin, Beenie Man swung on HelenIn the back of a cop car, Dirty Tasha are tellinBut suddenly a chill came through it was weirdFelt like my man, was cast out my heaven now we shareLaid on the stretcher, blood on his Wally's like ketchupDeep like the full assassination with a sketch of itIt can't be, from Yohoo to Lee'sSecond grade humped the teachers, about to leaveFinally this closed chapter, comes to an endHe was announced, pronounced dead, y'all, at twelve ten
NAHHH JAMIE DON'T START THAT SHIT...there's so much i like about that verse...it's a perfect movie scene he puts in my head...you've got all the ghost trademarks...the slang...the narrative...the emotion...the details are incredibly original..."when we was 8 we went to bat day to see the yanks"..."here come his old earth, with no shoes on, screamin holding her breasts with a gown on"...this verse gives me chills whenever i listen to it...guys got kids...cops don't care...fuck man, no one in wu tang can come close to writing like this...and not alot in the history of rappers as far as i'm concerned can touch this...like when we first put this list together i was thinking ghost might be number 2...but when we started on this ghost chamber i wasn't feeling him as much and i was like...maybe ghost should be at number 4...but i've come full circle again and i think he's in the discussion for number 2 again...
ALL PRAISES DUE...
ONE
IMPOSSIBLE
SCARY HOURS
WILDFLOWER
MURDA GOONS
MIGHTY HEALTHY
"You Goddman right I fuck fans"
BLUE ARMOR
So we forgot who was number 4 in our wu tang member rankings...we checked...and we had some controversial shit right there...not the gza, not odb...but...RAEKWON: THE CHEF!!!...i was kinda shocked actually...because i had no recollection...which means i must've been drunk when we initially did this list...which means we have some explaining to do!!!!...
What brings rain hail snow and earthquakes
The beat breaks, cause all my niggas to break son
Styles is similar to criminals locked up
With gats, ghetto tabernacles is fucked up
I live once though, the mind stays infinite
Traveling to touch nine planets, in my midst
While I carry, to earn a decent salary
Soon get married, raise a family, but the plan'll be
Real great, to sit up in the loft, count stacks and max
And real cats cold watch my back
But listen to the Wu son, and maintain
It's all real, starving individuals kill
I puff what's only right, leave the poison alone
Projects, infested with rats cats and crack homes
Half of us'll try to make it, the other half'll try to take it
So many fake half real freedom-build
Born to science my alliance analyzes
Wild surprises, keeping my eyes wide to this
The unfortunate, laying in mountains counting
With jewelry on, can it be the next team house the horn
Chill dun, just for real ones, light the lye up
I hate to have to tie the next guy up
Pay attention to 1010 WINS, Wu blends
Now I'm steering you to truth, buckle up
Now who's a legend?
CHAMBER # 4: Raekwon recorded classic verses on Enter. The Clan hook man. He came up with the phrase C.R.E.A.M first solo album was a classic. Recent resurgence after two pretty shit follow ups to Only. OBCL 2 and Shaolin vs Wu-Tang were both well received.
WILLIAM BROWN
Fuck it...let's get hyped!...new rae shit...
DRAMA EN SABAH
It's a tough one having Rae up so high. There was a long drought after Forever, but it speaks to how highly regarded Only Built for Cuban Links is. It's easily the most influential album the Clan ever put out. We can argue the unrecognized brilliance of Liquid Swords but OBCL was recognized brilliance and pretty much unanimously at that. I think the question we have to be able to answer in the affirmative to be able to justify having Shallah Raekwon up as high as #4 is, whether or not OBCL is justifiably called a Raekwon's album?". Ghost is on nearly every song. Some of the best songs like Ice Cream and Wu Gambinos featured appearances from the other members of the Wu. So is OBCL Raekwon's album?
WILLIAM BROWN
It is raekwon's album in a sense...i think of wu tang as a team...like an nba team...if you think of the miami heat...you think that's lebron's team right?...but they wouldn't have won two championships without wade or bosh or allen or even lesser members like battier, mike miller, mario chalmers, birdman...and so with wu tang solo albums it was still a team album...at least in the early days...when method man album dropped...yes it was a solo album, but you also thought of it as a wu tang album...i mean, they just approached "solo" albums in a different way then most rapper/groups do it...and i think cuban linx is rae's album...i think it was dope that someone recognized that ghost would go well with rae...instead of being...this is my album...rae let some of that ego go and that's what made that shit classic...i don't think of it as a fault that rae doesn't go completely solo on cuban linx...i'd like to focus a bit on raekwon's work on enter the 36 chambers too...because he was very prominent on that album...he was on 8 or more tracks out of the 12...i actually forgot that he was a very big presence on that album...and a very good presence...
It is raekwon's album in a sense...i think of wu tang as a team...like an nba team...if you think of the miami heat...you think that's lebron's team right?...but they wouldn't have won two championships without wade or bosh or allen or even lesser members like battier, mike miller, mario chalmers, birdman...and so with wu tang solo albums it was still a team album...at least in the early days...when method man album dropped...yes it was a solo album, but you also thought of it as a wu tang album...i mean, they just approached "solo" albums in a different way then most rapper/groups do it...and i think cuban linx is rae's album...i think it was dope that someone recognized that ghost would go well with rae...instead of being...this is my album...rae let some of that ego go and that's what made that shit classic...i don't think of it as a fault that rae doesn't go completely solo on cuban linx...i'd like to focus a bit on raekwon's work on enter the 36 chambers too...because he was very prominent on that album...he was on 8 or more tracks out of the 12...i actually forgot that he was a very big presence on that album...and a very good presence...
DRAMA EN SABAH
I agree. I think Rae's energy and personality really shaped the theme of that album. I think he carried off the gangster aesthetic in such a way that it had creative weight. None of the other members on the album really went with that sort of vibe on their solo albums so I really think they knew to take it there on OBCL because of Raekwon's influence. Recently Method Man responded to comments that the Clan members might be growing apart because their changing as they grow older and he more or less said that they're pretty much the same as they always were; as he's a big kid with a lot of video games. RZA is still into kung-fu movies which was proven as he had just made Man with the Iron Fist and he said "Rae is living that mobster lifestyle." So you can tell from that Rae's been on that shit for awhile.
I agree. I think Rae's energy and personality really shaped the theme of that album. I think he carried off the gangster aesthetic in such a way that it had creative weight. None of the other members on the album really went with that sort of vibe on their solo albums so I really think they knew to take it there on OBCL because of Raekwon's influence. Recently Method Man responded to comments that the Clan members might be growing apart because their changing as they grow older and he more or less said that they're pretty much the same as they always were; as he's a big kid with a lot of video games. RZA is still into kung-fu movies which was proven as he had just made Man with the Iron Fist and he said "Rae is living that mobster lifestyle." So you can tell from that Rae's been on that shit for awhile.
Rae was really important. He gave the group some heavy New York street vibe that was big at the time Rae had the same type of vibe as Mobb Deep and Nas and that was the hottest thing in East Coast street rap. He really anchored Staten Island as part of the New York scene. Who know what the perception of the Wu would have been like without Rae. They could have went all Fushnickens or something (for arguments sake).
Raekwon also stood out enough to get songs where he got an entire verse. I think maybe the way he wrote narratives helped with that. Instead of just being one of nine guys on a song he was one of two or three guys.
Funny that on Tearz and C.R.E.A.M Rae brought so much social introspection to his rhymes and he never really did it quite like that again. He didn't really focus on the why's of criminal activity or the weaknesses like smoking weed laced with crack or getting shot like he did on Enter. Who knows how big his career would of been if he had? I know with Immobilarity he was trying to move away from the nihilism of OBCL but he didn't hit it like he did at the start of his career.
When you listen to Enter is a Raekwon the break out star for you? Like you said he puts a lot of work on that album.
WILLIAM BROWN
And that's one in the chamber
And that's one in the chamber
Wu-Tang banger, 36 styles of danger
...i didn't think he was a break out star like method man or ghostface...it wasn't until i heard "incarcerated scarfaces" that i actually thought that he could hold his own on a song solo...but i really like his raps on 36 chambers...he really sticks out...nobody was rapping like that back then...i love that bit of acapella break that he does on 7th chamber part 2 and then bang the beat drops and it sounds soooo dope...
Champion gear that I rock, you get your boots knocked
Then attack you like a pit that lock shit down
As I come and freaks the sound
Hardcore, but giving you more and more, like ding!
Nah shorty, get you open like six packs
Killer Bees attack, flipping what, murder one, fat tracks a'ight
I kick it like a Nike Flight
Word life, I get that ass robbed on spite
Check the method from Bedrock, cause I rock your head to bed
Just like rocking what? Twin Glocks!
Shake the ground while my beats just break you down
Raw sound, going to war right now
So, yo, bombing
We usually take all niggas garments
Save your breath before I bomb it
...what i forgot was how much energy he brings to his verses on 36 too...i'm used to a pretty laid back rae these days...but in da mystery of chessboxin he's bringing some cold heat...some long ass sweater new york winter type raps!...
Rough like Timberland wear, yeah
Me and the Clan in 'Yota Landcruisers out there
Peace to all the crooks, all the niggas with bad looks
Bald heads, braids, blow this hook
We got chrome Tecs, nickel plated Macs
Black Ac's, drug dealing styles in phat stacks
I only been a good nigga for a minute though
Cuz I got to get my props, and win it yo
I got beef wit commercial-ass niggas with gold teeth
Lamping in a Lexus eating beef
Straight up and down don't even bother
I got forty niggas up in here now, who kill niggas fathers
...and of course cream which is a classic...but he's coming with some personal shit on this too...wearing secondhand clothing...robbing white boys on basketball courts...struggling with drugs and thugs...running up fire escapes...ducking and robbing...chickachickPOW...luckily he got with the wu or else...
I grew up on the crimeside, the New York Times side
Staying alive was no jive
Had secondhands, Mom's bounced on old man
So then we moved to Shaolin land
A young youth, rocking the gold tooth, 'Lo goose
Only way I begin to G off was drug loot
And let's start it like this son, rolling with this one and that one
Pulling out Gats for fun
But it was just a dream for the teen, who was a fiend
Started smoking woolies at 16
And running up in gates, and doing hits for high stakes
Making my way on fire escapes
No question I would speed for cracks and weed
The combination made my eyes bleed
No question I would flow off and try to get the dough all
Sticking up White boys in ball courts
My life got no better, same damn 'Lo sweater
Times is rough and tough like leather
Figured out I went the wrong route
So I got with a sick-ass clique and went all out
Catching keys from across seas
Rolling in MPV's every week we made forty G's
Yo nigga respect mine or anger the TEC-9
Ch-chick-POW, move from the gate now
How were you feeling about rae out of the gates?...did you overlook him at all?...were you thinking he was deserving of a solo album after his performance on 36th?
DRAMA EN SABAH
Out the gate I didn't really consider Rae a breakout star. He was huge on Enter but I really thought of him as a team player. I remember early on. over here before there were Wu videos to go with the music people always confused Rae, Deck, and Ghost with each other because of Cream, Tears and the Tears remix. They had the most similar subject matter as well. But after CREAM blew up I guess Rae had to be signed to a solo deal by Wu-Tang's record label Loud. There was no way they could have let someone else sign Rae after that. It's funny but I think if Deck could have put out an album sooner things might have gone differently for Rae. They both had a shot at solo success based on the the numbers CREAM did but Deck just never got a project out quick enough to capitalize on the buzz. All in all I thought Raekwon was one of the better Wu-Tang emcees but I can't say I thought Cuban Links was going to be great as a solo album based on his work on Enter the Wu-Tang 36th Chambers, I can't say I expected that masterpiece from Raekwon. Method Man was the one everyone was paying attention to. GZA was awarded the Source magazine Hip Hop Quotable of the Year for his verse on Protect Ya Neck. RZA was getting press for his production and people were beginning a bizarre love affair with Old Dirty Bastard. And on a personally level when I think Enter I think Bring Da Ruckus and "Ghostface catch the blast from a hype verse/My Glock burst/Leave in hearse/I done worse".
Out the gate I didn't really consider Rae a breakout star. He was huge on Enter but I really thought of him as a team player. I remember early on. over here before there were Wu videos to go with the music people always confused Rae, Deck, and Ghost with each other because of Cream, Tears and the Tears remix. They had the most similar subject matter as well. But after CREAM blew up I guess Rae had to be signed to a solo deal by Wu-Tang's record label Loud. There was no way they could have let someone else sign Rae after that. It's funny but I think if Deck could have put out an album sooner things might have gone differently for Rae. They both had a shot at solo success based on the the numbers CREAM did but Deck just never got a project out quick enough to capitalize on the buzz. All in all I thought Raekwon was one of the better Wu-Tang emcees but I can't say I thought Cuban Links was going to be great as a solo album based on his work on Enter the Wu-Tang 36th Chambers, I can't say I expected that masterpiece from Raekwon. Method Man was the one everyone was paying attention to. GZA was awarded the Source magazine Hip Hop Quotable of the Year for his verse on Protect Ya Neck. RZA was getting press for his production and people were beginning a bizarre love affair with Old Dirty Bastard. And on a personally level when I think Enter I think Bring Da Ruckus and "Ghostface catch the blast from a hype verse/My Glock burst/Leave in hearse/I done worse".
That being said you're right. Raekwon had a high amount of energy on that album. Even when he's not rapping very quickly he's rhyming in a style that adds an aggressive energy to his rhymes. On both C.R.E.A.M and the 7th Chamber remix you mentioned previously Rae is rarely putting more than 5 words in a bar, it has the effect of hitting you with rhyme after rhyme, combined with the type of subject matter he raps about it really makes for an aggressive/high energy style.
Before we go indepth with discussing OBCL which is a must. I think we should touch on his work on Forever. It came out after OBCL did you feel he did as good a job on Forever as Enter?
WILLIAM BROWN
MACHINE GUN RAP FOR ALL MY NIGGAS IN THE BACK…i've been listening to forever heavily…and i don't have the same feelings with raekwon on forever as i did on "enter…"…not sure it's his fault but i feel that he needs a certain backdrop, a certain environment for his lyrics…like some analog shit, some tape "hissing" type shit for his lyrics to work and forever doesn't really do that for him…how do you feel about forever and raekwon?
MACHINE GUN RAP FOR ALL MY NIGGAS IN THE BACK…i've been listening to forever heavily…and i don't have the same feelings with raekwon on forever as i did on "enter…"…not sure it's his fault but i feel that he needs a certain backdrop, a certain environment for his lyrics…like some analog shit, some tape "hissing" type shit for his lyrics to work and forever doesn't really do that for him…how do you feel about forever and raekwon?
On a side note: i think if i could look at some kind of listening statistic in my head, i'd have to say i've listened to "forever" more than "enter" in my lifetime...not saying forever is better...i mean, if you made a best of "forever"...combining the best of both discs you would have a fucking classic album right there...
DRAMA EN SABAH
I agree with you. I think with Forever we're looking at the double edged sword of success. All the money they needed to make an album but the beats got a little glossy and didn't sound as dirty. I can only imagine the jump in the quality of equipment RZA had access too. That combined with the Clan members admitted lack of focus makes for a strange LP. I really liked most of Forever but content wise it didn't match the early Wu records. Rae was no where near as strong a presence on Forever as he was on Enter. The social commentary and introspection just wasn't there. Also Forever is just too long. The double LP craze that had taken over Hip Hop at the time turned out to be a bad idea for most artists the Wu included. Forever was an LP that I thought Deck shined on and Ghost as well but most of the other guys who already put out solo records didn't seem that focused. Meth maybe being another exception. Don't get me wrong Older Godz is probably my favourite song on that LP and Rae was big on that but I think Forever is where we really see the beginning of his downward slide toward Immobilarity.
I agree with you. I think with Forever we're looking at the double edged sword of success. All the money they needed to make an album but the beats got a little glossy and didn't sound as dirty. I can only imagine the jump in the quality of equipment RZA had access too. That combined with the Clan members admitted lack of focus makes for a strange LP. I really liked most of Forever but content wise it didn't match the early Wu records. Rae was no where near as strong a presence on Forever as he was on Enter. The social commentary and introspection just wasn't there. Also Forever is just too long. The double LP craze that had taken over Hip Hop at the time turned out to be a bad idea for most artists the Wu included. Forever was an LP that I thought Deck shined on and Ghost as well but most of the other guys who already put out solo records didn't seem that focused. Meth maybe being another exception. Don't get me wrong Older Godz is probably my favourite song on that LP and Rae was big on that but I think Forever is where we really see the beginning of his downward slide toward Immobilarity.
WILLIAM BROWN
...a downward slide for sure...immobilarity in 1999 and lex diamonds story in 2003 were fucking wack...i honestly thought he was done making solo albums...
...a downward slide for sure...immobilarity in 1999 and lex diamonds story in 2003 were fucking wack...i honestly thought he was done making solo albums...
before we get too far ahead...you wanted to touch more on only built for cuban linx...on a personal note...that was a big album for you and i in ottawa!...
DRAMA EN SABAH
Man OBCL was a megaton bomb for me. One of those albums where I can remember where I was the first time I heard it. Pretty sure it was at Caribana in Toronto. Myself and some friends were walking down you Yonge Street near Gerrard and this white Lexus was parked on the west side of Yonge. A little crowd was gathering around the car listening to music. We realize that it's new Wu and walk down to HMW to see if they have it. Those were the days when HMW was open real late. Everything about that project seemed to scream classic. You ever read an album cover and feel you have a masterpiece in your hands just by the name of the song titles? I mean by the time I read the words "Wu-Gambinos" I knew it was on and poppin.
Man OBCL was a megaton bomb for me. One of those albums where I can remember where I was the first time I heard it. Pretty sure it was at Caribana in Toronto. Myself and some friends were walking down you Yonge Street near Gerrard and this white Lexus was parked on the west side of Yonge. A little crowd was gathering around the car listening to music. We realize that it's new Wu and walk down to HMW to see if they have it. Those were the days when HMW was open real late. Everything about that project seemed to scream classic. You ever read an album cover and feel you have a masterpiece in your hands just by the name of the song titles? I mean by the time I read the words "Wu-Gambinos" I knew it was on and poppin.
I just thought that album was a really incredible evolution of the Wu sound. They added audio samples from the John Woo classic "The Killer" which flowed nicely with their previous staple of Kung Fu movie samples. Really helped sell the gangster vibe without taking away from Kung Fu vibe they had established previously. The beats still sounded like RZA but with a lot of new twists and turns. OBCL sounded different from Enter, Tical, Liquid Swords, and The Dirty Version. They all sound like RZA's work but with enough differences to not make them sound stagnant. Still OBCL is the one that jumps out the most in terms of how different it sounded from the other first wave of Wu albums. If you think about it there were a lot of martial arts themed acts coming out after Wu-Tang you had the Venoms and you had Jeru. But the martial arts thing became kind of gimicky with those other acts. I think OBCL really added to Wu mythos and prevented that Kung Fu angle from becoming gimicky. OBCL added a lot of sophistication to their catalogue and really gave them a firm grip on that New York street music that people wanted at the time.
You and I loved this record. What are some of the fond memories you have of it?
WILLIAM BROWN
I really liked how the tape was purple too...i still have that tape downstairs...one of the few that i kept from my tape collection from back in the day...memories of OBCL...i remember having really good sex to that album for some reason...making sure i peaked durning ice cream!...taking it slow during rainy dayz...chilling out with a joint to heaven and hell and then drifting off to sleep...nothing like a cuban linx album with sex and weed thrown into the mix you know...good music, good times...fuck man it used to be all so simple didn't it!?...
I really liked how the tape was purple too...i still have that tape downstairs...one of the few that i kept from my tape collection from back in the day...memories of OBCL...i remember having really good sex to that album for some reason...making sure i peaked durning ice cream!...taking it slow during rainy dayz...chilling out with a joint to heaven and hell and then drifting off to sleep...nothing like a cuban linx album with sex and weed thrown into the mix you know...good music, good times...fuck man it used to be all so simple didn't it!?...
again...i was pretty shocked that rae delivered on this...i really didn't think he had it in him...i mean like you said the rza took shit to the next level...having ghost on it was genius and everyone else that guested on it was bangin...i was probably even more shocked when OBCL pt.2 was as good as it was...the lead up to that was toilet water...raekwon had nothing going on...and then all the delays...how were you feeling about pt.2?
DRAMA EN SABAH
I'm actually one of the few people who thought the OBCL 2 was really overrated. I actually find Rae's entire resurgence kind of baffling. I didn't think Shaolin vs Wu-Tang or the Wu Massacre were that memorable. OBCL 2 I liked maybe 3 songs. The two by Dr. Dre and the bonus cut Walk With Me. Which I though saw Rae in fine form. I will say OBCL 2 was credible as sequel as most times artists do a sequel album they don't really harken back to the original. It's just a publicity grab. However OBCL 2 was definitely in the same vein as the original.
I'm actually one of the few people who thought the OBCL 2 was really overrated. I actually find Rae's entire resurgence kind of baffling. I didn't think Shaolin vs Wu-Tang or the Wu Massacre were that memorable. OBCL 2 I liked maybe 3 songs. The two by Dr. Dre and the bonus cut Walk With Me. Which I though saw Rae in fine form. I will say OBCL 2 was credible as sequel as most times artists do a sequel album they don't really harken back to the original. It's just a publicity grab. However OBCL 2 was definitely in the same vein as the original.
I didn't know you were into OBCL 2. Did it take you back or did it stand on it's own?
WILLIAM BROWN
It stood on its own...i remember OBCL 2 and big boi's album coming out that year and both pleasantly surprising me...we've had this run of rap artists doing sequels to their classic albums...i think even nas is reportedly working on a sequel to illmatic right now...most of the time it seems like a publicity grab for sure...and i don't usually understand how the sequels are related to the original alot of times too...it's been a trend that's hit or miss and usually miss...but OBCL 2 had that vibe that the first one had...it felt like it was crafted...some care went into it...but i don't think it should've been a sequel though...it should've just been a quality stand alone project...i mean, i agree with you that rae's resurgence is baffling...but i feel like his whole solo career has been baffling...he's hit such highs and lows...he's just all over the map which means his new solo project could either be good or wack...in the end then we have raekwon as the number 4 wu tang mc of all time because of?...his enthusiasm on enter the 36 chambers...and the classic OBCL...for his unique rhyme flow...imagery, slang, imagery, slang...anything else...
It stood on its own...i remember OBCL 2 and big boi's album coming out that year and both pleasantly surprising me...we've had this run of rap artists doing sequels to their classic albums...i think even nas is reportedly working on a sequel to illmatic right now...most of the time it seems like a publicity grab for sure...and i don't usually understand how the sequels are related to the original alot of times too...it's been a trend that's hit or miss and usually miss...but OBCL 2 had that vibe that the first one had...it felt like it was crafted...some care went into it...but i don't think it should've been a sequel though...it should've just been a quality stand alone project...i mean, i agree with you that rae's resurgence is baffling...but i feel like his whole solo career has been baffling...he's hit such highs and lows...he's just all over the map which means his new solo project could either be good or wack...in the end then we have raekwon as the number 4 wu tang mc of all time because of?...his enthusiasm on enter the 36 chambers...and the classic OBCL...for his unique rhyme flow...imagery, slang, imagery, slang...anything else...
DRAMA EN SABAH
Should we touch a little on Imobilarty and Lex Diamonds? Immobilarty was terrible but Rae was trying to move away from the image he'd crafted on OBCL. It didn't work out but it was noble in concept. I remember Snoop tried to do the same thing on the Dogg Father. Move away from violence but that didn't work out either. Too bad the quality of the either album wasn't better. It would have been interesting to see if Hip Hop would have allowed for two of their most loved street emcees turn a new leaf.
Should we touch a little on Imobilarty and Lex Diamonds? Immobilarty was terrible but Rae was trying to move away from the image he'd crafted on OBCL. It didn't work out but it was noble in concept. I remember Snoop tried to do the same thing on the Dogg Father. Move away from violence but that didn't work out either. Too bad the quality of the either album wasn't better. It would have been interesting to see if Hip Hop would have allowed for two of their most loved street emcees turn a new leaf.
WILLIAM BROWN
...hip hop let snoop change...he changed into a loveable teddy bear that raps about pizza pockets...i mean, maybe hardcore rap fans didn't continue with snoop too much after his earlier stuff but a shit load of other people did...and i enjoy snoop now just as much as i did then...i think he transitioned perfectly...man's making reggae albums, funk albums...and for the most part i still check him out...and like i said nobody in the beginning liked his transition but he managed to find a way...raekwon didn't or hasn't been successful with transitioning to other shit...he tried but failed and didn't really find a way like snoop did...so he's gotta stick to the street slang imagery to be successful...and luckily for him he seems to be in demand these days...seems to fit in with alot of these new cats like roc marciano, action bronson etc...he's gotta stick to what he does best at this point...i mean, look at big boi...he's switched his stuff up too...gotten more into the experimental electronica side of music to go with his raps...it hasn't been entirely smooth but he's had some success with it...again raekwon's gotta stick with that same kind of vibe with his beats that got him there...whenever he guests on others songs, they're kind of like nostalgic OBCL type beats...but at this point if he sticks in his own lane, that will probably give him the most longevity...but it seems he wants to do this album and then be a background guy with his label...so his resurgence at the moment is pretty much a swan song...
...hip hop let snoop change...he changed into a loveable teddy bear that raps about pizza pockets...i mean, maybe hardcore rap fans didn't continue with snoop too much after his earlier stuff but a shit load of other people did...and i enjoy snoop now just as much as i did then...i think he transitioned perfectly...man's making reggae albums, funk albums...and for the most part i still check him out...and like i said nobody in the beginning liked his transition but he managed to find a way...raekwon didn't or hasn't been successful with transitioning to other shit...he tried but failed and didn't really find a way like snoop did...so he's gotta stick to the street slang imagery to be successful...and luckily for him he seems to be in demand these days...seems to fit in with alot of these new cats like roc marciano, action bronson etc...he's gotta stick to what he does best at this point...i mean, look at big boi...he's switched his stuff up too...gotten more into the experimental electronica side of music to go with his raps...it hasn't been entirely smooth but he's had some success with it...again raekwon's gotta stick with that same kind of vibe with his beats that got him there...whenever he guests on others songs, they're kind of like nostalgic OBCL type beats...but at this point if he sticks in his own lane, that will probably give him the most longevity...but it seems he wants to do this album and then be a background guy with his label...so his resurgence at the moment is pretty much a swan song...
DRAMA EN SABAH
You know I'm not sure Hip Hop let Snoop "change" so to speak. Snoop always had a lot of humour in his work. The Chronic had some funny moments and the "What's My Name?" lead single off of Doggystyle had that great line in the video. "You don't love me. You just love my doggystyle." I'm not saying that foreshadowed future pizza pocket sales but in music as long as you give people a couple different angles early on they tend to accept swings in your musical direction a little easier. We see it with dancehall artists all the time. They can have records filled with violent, or sexual content but they still throw in a morally upright tune or a song about God and no one blinks because they show you all those looks early on.
You know I'm not sure Hip Hop let Snoop "change" so to speak. Snoop always had a lot of humour in his work. The Chronic had some funny moments and the "What's My Name?" lead single off of Doggystyle had that great line in the video. "You don't love me. You just love my doggystyle." I'm not saying that foreshadowed future pizza pocket sales but in music as long as you give people a couple different angles early on they tend to accept swings in your musical direction a little easier. We see it with dancehall artists all the time. They can have records filled with violent, or sexual content but they still throw in a morally upright tune or a song about God and no one blinks because they show you all those looks early on.
I agree with you on Raekwon. He never really showed that type of range early on. Even the torture skit on Enter which was kind of funny was still about torturing someone. So yeah Rae is pretty firmly street. That's the way he's accepted best.
I don't see Rae around T.O too much but others who spend more time downtown see him once in awhile. Apparently the success of OBCL 2 put him a really good space financially and it's allowing him to take on more of an executive role.
I briefly like to talk about Rae on Ironman. I really liked him on that album. I've been listening to it a lot lately and I think Rae was fantastic on that.
WILLIAM BROWN
JESUS, YOU AND IRON MAN!!!…i have absolutely no recollection of raekwon on that album!…is he on it?…hehe...fuck i think of cappa on that shit more than rae…i'll give it a listen for raekwon specifically...
JESUS, YOU AND IRON MAN!!!…i have absolutely no recollection of raekwon on that album!…is he on it?…hehe...fuck i think of cappa on that shit more than rae…i'll give it a listen for raekwon specifically...
DRAMA EN SABAH
For fuck sakes Brown. That shit is classic. Iron maiden, 260, after the smoke is clear. Rae is great on that.
For fuck sakes Brown. That shit is classic. Iron maiden, 260, after the smoke is clear. Rae is great on that.
Two hours later, scheming like DeNiro in Casino
Son better have more coke than Al Pacino
Kiana ain't telling no lies, last year she did a sting and a half
With Tymeek bought him a aircraft
But anyway, yo, Daddy-O home, we need the shotties nid-ow
When we get back, throw you a thid-ou
Later that night, stay mesmerized yo
Go get the green 5, meet you on the corner of Marriot
You ready, you got the E&J and the machete?
We going upstairs, I hope one nigga is heavy
We walked in, both of us, looked like terrorists
Masks on, second floor, dun yo, I handle this
Kick in the crib, the whole shit looked graphical
Natural, fucking a white bitch, actual
Fiends chanting, "Do your thing Chef, handle it"
I shot him in the neck, it ricocheted and hit Carolyn
Ran to the back analyzing, much disguising
Surprise is coming in their eyes and tranquilizing
Bugging, throwing the twin cousins at his nugget, fuck it
Meet shottie waddy slug body hobby
Where the drugs, where the ounces you be bouncing
Fake cats announcing on the block, you lounging
Where the blow at, I ain't got shit, stop fronting
(Yo Chef, throw the joint in his mouth, money'll start stunting
Bitch, hold that pit, before I push your wig back
Chef stop waving that, show him where the paper at)
Come here Valerie, you know the God he need a salary
Put down the pipe here's two tickets to a coke gallery
It's in the kitchen in the ceiling
(Baby girl kept squealing
Only found a white block of cheese from New Zealand
Ohhh shit! Yo, yo where that shit at yo?
Yo Chef, where that shit? What? What? Aiyyo...)
WILLIAM BROWN
Rae's on point no doubt...that's why he's number 4 yo!
Rae's on point no doubt...that's why he's number 4 yo!
DRAMA EN SABAH
IRON MAN WINS AGAIN!
CHEF'S PICKS
with your host
DRAMA EN SABAH
Raekwon's big songs are so well known I think I'll throw up some dope tracks that might not be the obvious choices. Still if you haven't heard C.R.E.A.M, Ice Cream, etc. you NEED to check those out.
Big song right here. Proved that Rae could walk the line between the streets and smooth shit for the ladies.
Really cemented the fact that Raekwon could be a successful solo artist with the ability to hold down an entire song by himself.
Not one of the better known Rae joints but I love it.
Off of OBCL 2.
Blood Missiles
A song that was reportedly recorded for OBCL 2 but didn't make the final cut. Not sure what the true story is but I think Rae is dope as hell on this.
Stop the Breaks
You know how big Rae and the Wu were in the 90's when Ron J calls him up to be on a track with Krs-One and B.I.G.
CHAMBER #5: THE GZA
william brown
Had to run and get some coffee…i'm here now...
Drama En Sabah
GZA at #5...this is tough for me. Not sure he should be this low. He is a clan founder, and taught RZA how to rhyme...Liquid Swords is brilliant.
GZA at #5...this is tough for me. Not sure he should be this low. He is a clan founder, and taught RZA how to rhyme...Liquid Swords is brilliant.
william brown
Considered to be the "best" lyricist in the WU TANG CLAN…"The Source" has him in their top 50 mcs of all time…he's a fellow Leo…acted in a scene with Bill FUCKING Murray…co founder of the clan like you said…their "spiritual" leader…government name GARY GRICE…also known as the GENIUS…ladies and gentlemen, rap fans of all ages…the one and only GZA of the WU TANG CLAN!!!!!…
william brown
But you know, i'm feeling kind of blah about this pick at #5 for some reason…seems safe for us…i need something to get me hyped on the GZA…got anything?
Formed in very a strong advanced post, east to west coast
Ahead of time, competition not even half close
Let's say, by no means, an equal value
Prematurely brought to play, I'll never allow you
To strike first, so precautions must be taken
And what's worst? When you're just fronting and faking
It's a shame when the sixteen bars are just a waste
And every line or word, is badly placed
Even dealing with the narrow window of time
My arrangements, are quick, shutting down your power lines
On a bunch of small puppets, with a wack ass team
That only move, at a push of a button that pull strings
Bad boys move in silence, secretly fading in
Unlike fake gangstas and ya wannabe made men
Acting like they carry the gun that killed Lincoln
Or they rolling with two hundred murderers from Kingston
william brown
But you know, i'm feeling kind of blah about this pick at #5 for some reason…seems safe for us…i need something to get me hyped on the GZA…got anything?
Drama En Sabah
I'll try not to hold his being a Leo against him. He's also an accomplished chess player. A noted video director whose work on his own video Shadow Boxin was deemed one of the top 5 videos of the year by the Source magazine. I'd say RZA is/was the spiritual leader. Hence the Abbott tag. GZA is the master. He more leads by technique and example. Spawning RZA, Killah Priest, and ODB who learned from the RZA.
william brown
Before WU TANG came together, were you aware of GZA when he was the GENIUS signed to the legendary Cold Chillin records...
"I was signed to Cold Chillin' 'bout five years ago," GZA recalled in 1995. "They put out an album but didn't promote it. They tried to put it out again last year after everything happened with the Clan, put a '94 date on it, but still didn't put any money behind it, so it didn't sell twice. I'm still proud of it, though. The beats ain't all that but, lyrically, shit was bangin'. So it wasn't all peaches and cream, but I was determined to break through. 'A quitter never wins, and a winner never quits.'
Drama En Sabah
Maybe but I think all those guys were on their way down when Words from the Genius came out. Yeah I actually had a friend who was a big fan of that first album.
I wasn't a big fan but I was definitely aware of him...here's a greatly under appreciated GZA TUNE
william brown
Cause i smother/ you cold chillin motherfuckers
GZA: This is what happened: the guys from Cold Chillin' Records, they figured that after [Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)] came out, they could capitalize on Words From The Genius. That goes to show you how labels work. Tyrone "Fly Ty" Williams, he was a good dude. All respect to him, 'cause that's my first deal I ever got. I found out, years later, the budget amount that I got was more than he ever gave [anyone else]. Even Kane with his platinum status, didn't get the money that I got for that Words From The Genius album - not until [his third or fourth album], he shared that [amount] with me. The advance was good, the album was great, and they had all these other greats on [Cold Chillin'] and I didn't get the time of the day. I didn't think he know how to run a label the way it should've been ran. Cold Chillin' started when Def Jam started, and I think might've even had a stronger [roster], considering the Juice Crew. That's like Wu-Tang in the '80s. When I ended up getting the deal on Geffen and Liquid Swords came out, he just tried to capitalize. They put Words From The Genius out again, changed the cover and put the remix on there that [the label] didn't want to have shit to do with. He didn't even like that fuckin' remix. Didn't RZA remix it? "He's your cousin." They didn't like it. They wanted me to make an "O.P.P." [by Naughty By Nature]. That's how the industry is. On Protools, I say, "Out of 99 emcees, only one speaks in his own voice.
I was reading too…that GZA, RZA and ODB…used to be in a group called "All In Together Now"…and they used to travel to all the different new york boroughs and battle other rappers…that seems so quaint to me now…like break battles and mc battles and dj battles…has that part of the culture been lost to a certain extent in 2014?…those kinds of environments could really step your game up…so that by the time say GENIUS got a record deal he was a pretty battle tested mc…
Drama En Sabah
That still goes on though. More so now than ever. Except most "battle rappers" cannot transition to making records. There is an All in together now song kicking around. Might have been on a Wu album but I've heard it somewhere. I'll attempt to find it. Here it is. A tribute song to ODB
The All In Together Now, started in Bed-Stuy
Human beatbox specialist, who dressed fly
A half ounce of blow and a forty ounce drinker
Magnificent flow, critical thinker
Unique is one grain of sand from the beach
And had bitches eating out of his hand
He was intelligent, his style was relevant
I can name ten niggas that stole an element
From the high speed chase to the court arraignments
All of the above, was entertainment
He caused earthquakes, just from experiments
Some thoughts got lost, not knowing where it went
His songs had a rep for many inducements
Giving birth to new styles, after recruitments
There's no replacement or any supplement
He was a new testament, what he said, what he meant, we were
william brown
So RZA, GZA and ODB get together and form like VOLTRON
with the other WU members…creating the rap masterpiece "Enter the 36 Chambers"...
The Wu is coming through, the outcome is critical
Fucking with my style is sort of like a miracle
On 34th Street, in the Square of Herald
I gamed Ella, the bitch caught a Fitz like Gerald-
-ine Ferraro, who's full of sorrow cause the ho didn't win
But the sun will still come out tomorrow
And shine shine shine like gold mine
Here comes the drunk monk, with a quart of Ballantine
Pass the bone, kid pass the bone
Let's get on this mission like Indiana Jones, the GZA
One who just represent the Wu-Tang clique
With the game and soul of an old school flick
Like the Mack and Dolemite, who both did bids
Claudine went to Cooley High and had mad kids
So stop, the life you save may be your motherfucking own
I'll hang your ass with this microphone
Make way for the merge of traffic
Wu-Tang's coming through with full metal jackets
God squad that's mad hard to serve
Come fronting hard, then Bernhard Goetz what he deserves
Did GZA stand out for you on enter? Or did he get lost to the more charismatic members like METH, ODB and a passionate RAEKWON? GZA and METHOD MAN are the only two with solo cuts on enter i might add.
Drama En Sabah
I got to be honest in that I can't really remember where I placed GZA performances on Enter during that the days after it's release. I know that I didn't really like his verse on Protect Ya Neck. At least not as much as everyone else seemed to. That being said Clan in Da Front (GZA's solo song on Enter) is one of my favourite songs on that album. If you listen to that song you can actually hear a lot of foundation elements for both RZA and ODB's styles in there. Both in the flow and the inflection changes he uses. Nothing as over the top as RZA and ODB used but still very noticeable. He was also big on Bring Da Rukus.
He had a lot of mic time on Enter and justifiably so. His voice and RZA's production go together really well. You'd think a lot of those beats were for GZA songs that other Clan members had found their way on to.
william brown
This is the thing about WU TANG that makes them one of the more successful group experiments in rap...and especially when you almost have double figures in terms of rappers in the group, you gotta have some guys in the group that are able to lay back in the cut...take a bit of the Dwayne Wade roll...in WU TANG you got meth and ODB as your charismatic, energy guys...GHOSTFACE can get hysterical...RZA can get a little hyped...that's where GZA and a to smaller extent MASTA KILLA come in...bring in some atmospherics to the project at hand...give it some balance...yin and yang type shit...GZA is almost like breathing meditation in which you watch your breath instead of your thoughts...GZA makes you slow down and watch his lyrics...
This is the thing about WU TANG that makes them one of the more successful group experiments in rap...and especially when you almost have double figures in terms of rappers in the group, you gotta have some guys in the group that are able to lay back in the cut...take a bit of the Dwayne Wade roll...in WU TANG you got meth and ODB as your charismatic, energy guys...GHOSTFACE can get hysterical...RZA can get a little hyped...that's where GZA and a to smaller extent MASTA KILLA come in...bring in some atmospherics to the project at hand...give it some balance...yin and yang type shit...GZA is almost like breathing meditation in which you watch your breath instead of your thoughts...GZA makes you slow down and watch his lyrics...
It's a shame when the sixteen bars are just a waste
Drama En Sabah
You know as much as they talk about GZA being the teacher of RZA you really here his influence on Masta Killa and Killah Priest the most. That being said I have to agree with you on GZA providing a nice change of pace from the other Wu members. His technique is so different it really allows for all those 5, 6, or even 7 verse songs to work. He really balances the esoteric with accessible really well. If you're the type who doesn't really want to deal with some of the more street oriented material all the time you know that regardless of the subject matter GZA is going to come through and "grown man" the track and take away some of the guilt you have about wanting to do a couple lines after listening to OBCL.
There's something about GZA that really radiates out that makes you respect him. There is a story of some thugs having RZA, GZA and I think a couple of other Clan members hemmed up in an apartment on Staten Island. The incident takes place before they were putting out records. The thugs were in the hallway waiting to rob the clan members. Guns out and everything. Finally GZA gets tired of hiding in the apartment opens the door and says "I'm Justice Allah from Brooklyn!" and walks the fuck out unharmed. RZA says his voice was just so powerful that the thugs thought they better seek easier prey.
I also find it interesting that GZA says he doesn't put out more material because it takes him a long time to write songs. Sometimes he'll spent months writing a single verse.
william brown
Got the flu so i'll get going on the GZA in a couple of days...fuck i feel like i gotta do a proper sit down with Liquid Swords in the next few days and really pay attention to his lyrics...
Drama En Sabah
Really good writing on Liquid Swords and maybe the most perfectly named album in the Clan catalogue.
william brown
My lifestyle was so far from well,
could've wrote a book with the title
'Age 12 and going through hell'
Allright get back at this...get into some Liquid Swords...with the sword so sharp that when he cut off heads the heads stayed on their shoulders!...GZA actually went on record saying his lyrics weren't that sharp on this record...high standards!
Although he does go onto say that Liquid Swords is timeless...the WU were on fire creatively at this time...36 Chambers, Tical, Old Dirty's, Cuban Linx and then Liquid...the CLAN was working on all cylinders...they were focused and together...it must've been such a high for those guys...to be on such a high level creatively...you can feel the cohesiveness in this album...it's not like how most albums are made today...it makes a huge difference to have one beatmaker on the project...especially one as talented as the RZA...GZA seemed slightly envious of his other CLAN members that could come in and write a verse in 45 minutes and be out...it took him 2 to 3 days of solid work...revisions and changes to be satisfied...i've given it a pretty good study lately...i love the content cause he's telling all these hood stories but he makes them unique by using a lot of kung fu flick references, chess references, little philosophies here and there...by the end i really feel like i was watching all these scenes...very visual...movie feel...it's a brilliant sample to kick off the album...creates a menacing mood...misty...dark...creaking doors...violence that you can hear but can't see...that was the night everything changed...man if GZA was unnoticed or unappreciated up to this point...wow did this album change how i viewed him...just like Rae's album, this shit was something special…
Drama En Sabah
The response this album received helped bolster my faith in the Hip Hop community. I really respected how well received this album was. It would have been so easy for people to ignore this record. It didn't have the break out star power of the first Method Man album nor did it have any song that had the slightest smell of radio hit like OBCL did with Ice Cream.
On top of that I felt this album had arguable the "darkest" production RZA had laced an album with to date. The fact that Liquid Swords is the best named of any of the Wu-Tang albums doesn't hurt though. RZA and GZA just let the Hip Hop fall where it may and came up with a masterpiece.
No neighborhood is rough enough
There is no clip that's full enough
I can't fold, I need gold, I re-up and reload
Product must be sold to you
Fiends ain't coming fast enough
There is no cut that's pure enough
I can't fold, I need gold, I re-up and reload
Product must be sold to you
There is no clip that's full enough
I can't fold, I need gold, I re-up and reload
Product must be sold to you
Fiends ain't coming fast enough
There is no cut that's pure enough
I can't fold, I need gold, I re-up and reload
Product must be sold to you
That's not your regular lyrical content for a song about drug dealing there. With Gold GZA really paints a picture the encompasses everything from murders under New York subway lines to a drug dealers insatiable appetite for success. "No cuffs that's tight enough". To a man burying a 100k in his mother's tomb. I mean not a grave. A TOMB!
For GZA to not only work within the Wu-Tang mythology and more so to be seen as a leader and the Master of the clan this album really had to delivery lyrically. With that in mind is there a song on here that for really confirmed that this guy was the real deal and a lyrical master amongst a group of outstanding emcees?
william brown
GZA creates LYRICAL SORCERY on Liquid Swords...there's a bunch of songs to breakdown and study...but i really love the second verse on living in the world today...
My preliminary attack keep cemeteries packed
Of niggas who think it ain't like that
MC's are gunned down like being run down with mad trucks
Them God struck, religious niggas call it bad luck
Rap celeb, you got caught up in the web
Now bees are stingin, yo that niggas em-singin
I'm just swingin swords strictly based on keyboards
Unbalanced like elephants and ants on see-saws
I throw raps that attack like the Japs on Pearl Harbor
MC's be out like bank robbers
Fleeing the scene, to be a sole survivor
DJ the getaway driver
Tried to dip but he dive I socialize on vocal vibes
On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
Criminal subliminal minded rappers find it
Hard to define it, when narrow is the gate
For fat tapes and then played out and out of date
Then I construct my thoughts on site to renovate
And from that point, the God made a statement
Draftin tracements, replacements in basements
Materials in sheet-rock, to sound proof the beat box
And microscopic optics received through the boxes
Obnoxious topic, major labels, flavor tropical
Punchlines, that's unstoppable
Ring like shots from Glocks that attract cops
Around the clubs and try to shut down the hip-hop
But we only increase if everything is peace
Father You See King the police
Just reading it out loud...acapella...this verse is fun...but there's alot of subtle shit going on here too if you choose to dig deeper...beneath the surface...and when it comes down to it, i think that's why we love WU TANG so much...cause if you want to, you can study these fucking verses...at some point some college or university...some english lit department will spend a semester breaking down WU TANG verses...if that hasn't already been done...but let's take a look deeper at a couple of things in this verse...
Tried to dip but he dive I socialize on vocal vibes
On tracks stabbed up with razor sharp knives
On the surface it is what it is...but if you like, you also got a little dip, dip dive, so-so-cialize...nod to Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five...and a shout out to RZA making beats with razor sharp knives...
But we only increase if everything is peace
Father You See King the police
...turns out, on the last line GZA'S using the supreme alphabet used by the 5 Percenters...which is a path that Clarence 13X created out of the Nation of Islam...
Father: To father mentally as well as physically. To father means to further, to further ones physical and mental development by way of proper education—history and proper nutrition—diet, the proper foods.
You or U: You or Universe and U-N-I-Verse: You are the universe because we are the creators of the sun, moon & star or man, woman & child.
See or Cee: Cee or See: to see is to have insight, to comprehend through the mind’s eye; to see is to have insight to see through the physical, to understand.
King: King or
...plus as a little bonus...father you see king the police also is an acronym for F.U.C.K the police...that shit just sums up wu tang for me...dope on many different levels...how about for you, anything stand out?...what did you think of Killah Priest getting a solo song at the end?
Drama En Sabah
To tell you the truth, though I like the song B.I.B.L.E I find it kind of dubious when an artist gets an entire song on someone else's album. It reeks of marketing more so than artistry. That being said what jumped out at me most was the perfect blend of emcee to producer. This was like the Dr. Dre/Snoop combo of the east coast. GZA never sounds as right as he does on a RZA beat and he never sounded more right than he did on Liquid Swords. Just an assured record from beginning to end. And it's not just the music. The title is perfect. The album cover is perfect. I feel that it is as Wu-Tang as an album can be. A true reflection of why he was tagged the Master to RZA's Abbott.
Did you follow GZA beyond Liquid Swords. I tried but often thought the production didn't live up the lyrics. I thought Beneath the Surface was okay but a big let down after Liquid Swords. But speaking to my point the song 1112 featured a very clear title. Four emcees rhyme the first 3 represented by the number 1 in the title while the lone female emcee is 2. Which corresponds with teachings of the Nation of Gods and Earths and I believe various other dogmas dealing in numbers.
william brown
I'll get to his post Liquid Sword albums in a second...i was digging in some crates...and found the Wu Tang Manual that you got for me many moons ago...
GZA ON THE WEAPONS OF METAPHOR
from "the Wu-Tang Manual"
You hear artists running around talking about jewelry all the time. They wear diamonds, you got ice - which Rae and them mostly started - everybody's wrists is "frosty" and "frozen" and "the bling-bling will blind you" - all these metaphors for jewelry. But who have you ever heard call jewelry actually what it is? It's a mineral, a precious mineral of earth, a stack of crystalline carbon. That's what gives it the shine. It has a history, it's not just a necklace. It could be a woman you had, your wife or your daughter. But every few MCs use the language on that level. If i'm about, "yeah i paid 100 thou, and it's bling-bling, and it'll blind you, and when i wear it on my neck, it's so heavy that i walk like this..."- then, really, who gives a shit? You want to take it to the next level - to all the levels. Talking about the history of the diamond, where it comes from, what it's about, why it's a precious gem - that's the lyrical side of it. Or you know, on "Amplified Sample," i say, "i came in, accompanied by deadly rain and wind." That's what i'm talking about: battling with metaphor. I mean, you're comin in with two hundered people? Well, i'm coming with actual rain and wind. It's a whole lot more powerful. Who are you gonna be intrigued by?
It's like, reach one, teach one. But for me, it's also about the respect level. It's not just how many people are feeling you. In my case, ain't no dumb people running up to me, that's how it should be.
Protect ya neck
Run on the track like jesse owens
broke the record flowin, without knowin
that my wordplay run the four hundred meter relay
it's on once i grab the baton from the DJ
a athlete wit his iron cleat in the ground
wildest nigga who sprint off the gun sound
the best time yet still seven-point-zero
swift flow made the cameramen clothes blow
RZA: This is classic GZA verse in the way that it extends one metaphor to fill the whole joint. He's talking about rap as a track event run by Jesse Owens. His record setting time for the 400 meter relay was 7.0 seconds. so GZA is the jesse owens of this.
One of the things that i used to love about rap when i was growing up was that it provided me with information...KRS-1...PUBLIC ENEMY...NWA...etc...investigative reports into all kinds of shit that the real media wasn't talking about...police injustice, racial discrimination...shit dealing with the poor...inadequate housing...corrupt politicians...different ways of surviving...alternative history lessons...on and on...WU TANG did the same for me...GZA did the same thing for me...investigative reports...
Drama En Sabah
Man I hear you with the way good Hip Hop gave us new things to study, I'm right there with you, but a strange thing about GZA and more specifically the Wu is actually how they made me revisit my past. I was always a huge lover Kung Fu movies as a child and the Wu made me go back and watch all those joints over again. It also made me revisit a lot of the Five Percenter (Nation of Gods and Earths) lyrics in older songs like Rakim's I Ain't No Joke, "Got you at a triple stage of darkness".
Man the more we write the harder it is to say this guy is number 5 but he just didn't have the solo success of those listed above him.
I guess my final question is are you surprised that Ironman was as big a record as it was even though GZA isn't on it?
Man I hear you with the way good Hip Hop gave us new things to study, I'm right there with you, but a strange thing about GZA and more specifically the Wu is actually how they made me revisit my past. I was always a huge lover Kung Fu movies as a child and the Wu made me go back and watch all those joints over again. It also made me revisit a lot of the Five Percenter (Nation of Gods and Earths) lyrics in older songs like Rakim's I Ain't No Joke, "Got you at a triple stage of darkness".
Man the more we write the harder it is to say this guy is number 5 but he just didn't have the solo success of those listed above him.
I guess my final question is are you surprised that Ironman was as big a record as it was even though GZA isn't on it?
william brown
You and fucking Ironman!!!...any chance you get, you bring that album up!...fuck...I don't even know if you want me to seriously answer that?...but truth be told i never thought about GZA not being on Ironman...but fuck that...back to his other solo stuff...it's true he didn't have the solo success...i would say his solo albums are solid...like 6/10 type solid...nothing bad, but nothing too memorable...although i am looking forward to his new Dark Matter album, whenever that drops...seems like he's taking his time with that...studying his chess moves...polishing it...wax on, wax off...allright, it's taken us months to do this GZA CHAMBER!!!...let's fucking post this bitch and move on!
IT'S A SHAME WHEN THE 16 BARS
ARE JUST A WASTE...
BIG BANG
SWORDS OF LIQUID
SHADOWBOXIN IN THE 4TH CHAMBER
THE DRUNKEN MONK
FAR FROM REALITY WITH THE SLIM CHANCE OF GETTING BACK,
EVEN IF YOU NARROWLY ESCAPE THE HIDDEN TRAPS
BILL FUCKING MURRAY